I've had some thoughts running through my mind for almost a year, and have been trying to make sense of them, add to my knowledge, and continue to ponder on them as I attempt to *figure* out something that isn't even meant to be figured out. You may be offended, may think me naive, but I'm going to spew it out anyway..
What is it then? Why do we have pain and suffering, and whom, if anyone, is it caused by.
I believe this began when my brother was in the hospital, then subsequently died. My mom would always ask why this happened to him, how could God let this happen to him, to us, and what did we do to deserve it. I didn't have a good answer then, and have spent time since then trying to come to terms with what it meant.
Growing up, I was taught that God was a punisher. If you lied, were mean, or did things wrong, God was watching you and was waiting for the opportune time to punish you because of it. "God is watching you, he knows you are a liar," was often heard from my mother. Naturally, my thoughts of God were never him as a loving Father. After all, what does love have to do with this punishment? What sense does it make to forgive us of sins if you are still just waiting to punish us? Why would I want to believe in God and go to heaven if that is the case?
So, when terrible things happened to me as a teenager, I thought it was my fault. I deserved the awful things I went through, what happened to me was only my due. Still, my anger at a God who would do this to me remained. I wanted to love Him, but was so scared of what He would do to me if I screwed up. And I did screw up. Time and time again.
Coming into the last couple of years, I have changed my thinking. I am working through and my current state, whether it be right or wrong, is this:
We live in horrible, fallen world. Evil and anger are all around us, and we are fighting it everyday.
Yes, awful things happen. Babies die. Parent lose young children to cancer. Families are split. But- is this God's will? Is this what he has planned for us?
I don't think so. I think the best line I heard was in a Greg Boyd sermon where he talked about a baby that died, and a baby that lived. His remark was, "Does God have a switch in heaven, where he says, "hmm, this baby gets to live, but this baby has to die..."
Do awful things have to happen because it is God's will? Or, is it that awful things happen because we live in a fallen world? Evil, pain and sadness are a direct result of the fallen world we live in.
God has a plan. Does this plan have to mean we lose a loved one, have cancer, or anything else? Maybe, maybe not. Personally, I think God is bigger than that. He does not need to cause pain in our lives to have His will be done. He does not need to take a loved one away from us in order to show us a new path, or to lead people to Him. He can do it with or without us.
Will God work through these situations? My thought is yes, absolutely. He will meet us where we are at, in whatever situation we are in, and work through it. His good can come as a result of our pain, people can be saved as a result, but he does not have to cause it. Could He prevent it? Yes. Does He? Sometimes. The other times, we don't know why. I don't believe we are meant to know why. Sometimes, I need to sit back and just trust.
I feel so sad sometimes when I hear people say that God's plan was to take their loved one. "It was God's plan, it was their time to go." I won't lie. I struggle hard core with this. Does God's plan mean horrible suffering? Why would we believe in anyone who made us suffer like this? Isn't God supposed to be love? And what if we pray and God doesn't answer? What then? Was our prayer not strong enough? Our faith not strong enough? No.
The book, The Shack, was instrumental to me in helping me shape my thoughts. If you've read it, maybe you can see where I am coming from. Between this book, and others I've read, combined with sermons by Boyd, Kent and Ed Dobson, and Rob Bell, along with prayer and discussions with friends, I am forming my thoughts.
I believe I will figure it out by... never. Because honestly? I don't think I was meant to. Now? I am off to cuddle my babies. I'll be back to my regular nonsensical self soon.
39 comments:
Good post. I'll have to check out that book once the semester ends (three weeks!!!). I have to say, I've thought about your words from a few weeks ago when I was working through the death of my friend's spouse (still am working through that)...I think you are right. It isn't "God's Plan" (ugh, I hate that phrase for so many reasons I won't get into). Sometimes, bad things just happen. Even to good people. And our response to these things is a key part of our growth as human beings. I don't know much else beyond that--and I'm okay with knowing I won't have it all figured out anytime soon. :)
Thank you for this post, Sara. This is a subject that I struggle often with myself. I haven't read The Shack, but you can rest assured that I will soon.
And yes, I've done a bit of extra cuddling with Reagan today as well.
I really, really struggle with this too. I think the reason bad things happen is because of sin. Not on the part of the person the bad things happens to, but just that we live in a sinful world in general. It all goes back to Adam and Eve.
I am going to have to check out that book.
Wow I feel like you are in my head because these are the same things that I think all the time. I don't understand so much about God and why things happen and I struggle so much with all of it. Great post - it's so nice to know that there is someone else out there who struggles with the same stuff. Thanks for being so honest!
this was a great post. and you had some great answers. i guess i hadn't thought from the standpoint that we live in a sinful world! you brought up some really good points. while i was reading i kept thinking of James 1:2-5. Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.
i believe that God allows us to endure certain trials. sometimes to draw people to him, and sometimes to strengthen our faith. because if everything was peachy keen in life why would we even need God? think of Job. God allowed trial after trial into his life by letting satan take his family and possessions from him and cause him emotional and physical pain. during his trials Job said that it was from the Lord, and after his suffering was over and God made him prosperous again Job gathered with everyone he knew and talked about the troubles the Lord brought him.
after reading what you wrote i think God works differently in each situation. why something awful happens to someone may be the result of a sinful depraved world. one thing that pops into my head is gang violence. and then in a totally different situation God may allow something horrible to happen in my life, but at the same time God is faithful and won't give me more than I can handle.
sorry, i didn't realize how much i'd been writing. i hope this makes sense being that it's close to midnight! :-)
thanks for some things to ponder tonight...
What a thought-provoking post. I will have to check out The Shack. I'm a believer that things happen for a reason. That there is a higher purpose to all things that happen. I have found comfort in that belief over the years, but I can see how the thought could be irritating to others.
I hope you got some good cuddles in with your babies. :)
What a post, Sara! It goes well with your fabulous new design and the fact that I am using your real name.
The entire package makes me smile...even if the topic is the heaviest one that I have read from you yet. I like this sensical side to you.
-Francesca
Thank you for this post. Can I just say that? I have struggled with this for the past few years moving myself from how I was brought up into where I think I fit today. And they are very different places!
I don't talk about this on my blog because religion is so sensitive a topic and my dh's family tend to read my blog (and they don't know that I am no longer the Catholic girl he married). But I talked all this over with my mom (who herself was not Catholic before marrying my dad but Presbyterian like I am now) and she was cool with all of it. Shocked me big time!
I don't really think death is God's will. I think sometimes things happen and I don't think He interferes in every situation. Like you said he's not checking a list of this person will die and this person will live.
That is the hardest part of religion for me and causes some conflict in my marriage because my husband and I no longer believe the same things. But like anything, life and religion is a work in progress!
Awesome topic today!
I just looked up the Shack - and realized it was the book a woman I sat next to on a plane a few weeks ago said I had to read. She was dealing with the death of her sister and I was dealing with my mom's illness. I think I will have to check it out!
And I love the new design/colors on the blog. It looks great!
I think sometimes medical things happen. They aren't tests or retribution for things we've done wrong in our lives or a way to correct moral wrongs. Just, something that went awry with the biological wiring.
Really, really good post. I love the Shack. This is something that our family has discussed at length in the last year. Part of the evil we live with is due to the choices we make and the choices others make...free will. The other things, sick babies, cancer...Well, it's too long a thought to leave a comment. Thanks for making me think!
did you know that the shack was not written my a christian and that the author has some not so 'right' views? we had a mom and mom's group recommend it and then take back that recommendation because of things the author agrees with and stands for. i haven't looked into any of it myself, but the other mom felt bad to lead us to something that may not be 100% biblical in it's standings. i'm a firm believer in god's great and good plan. i have to remember it is his will, not my will. and that always he has a good plan for me (jer 29:11) and that all things will work out for good (romans 8:28) it's so hard because we only see a piece of the puzzle and he already has the puzzle all put together. i live with knowing that my days and everyone's around me are numbered. it says in the bible that there will be a day in which we will not pass. it's already planned out. i just need to trust god and know he does know better than me. no matter how hard it is.great post my friend.
I try to believe that everything happens for a reason & that God has a plan for why...but it's hard sometimes.
I've heard The Shack mentioned on several blogs, but I've never looked up what it was about.
This is such a great post!!!
I read The Shack recently and you are right. I think it does help us to see the evil in the world in a different way.
Wow! That was an awesome post! I think you have it right on that it's the world we live in that's evil and bad. God is the saving grace. Do bad things happen to "good" people for reasons that can't be explained....sure they do; the other way around also. I've heard a lot of good things regarding "The Shack" and just purchased it to read.
Great post, Sara. I love your thoughts on suffering--I think there's so much we're never going to understand this side of Heaven.
I also loved The Shack--I think it's a great book. I'm not sure where Amanda heard that Paul Young isn't a Christian--that's certainly not the impression I got from checking out his website www.windrumors.com. Of course, I understand that there are aspects of the book that would certainly be controversial in many churches.
Anyway, keep it up, bloggy friend. Keep reading, and thinking, and digging--your thoughts encourage me!
I am not a very religious person, and that's putting it lightly. I was raised going to church, but have long since stopped. A more religious person would probably call me lost, and I think I am OK with that. I say that because I tend to think that things do happen for a reason. But not the reasons that we think. Typically, people are only challenged to the point that they can handle. A lesser person could not have dealt with the death of a sibling and come out of it. It's trite and I absolutely hate it, but the whole 'what doesn't kill you...' it is true.
Also, I tend to believe that bad things happen to good people because if they happened to bad people, those bad people wouldn't do with it what the good people do. For instance, locally, Morgan Nicks mother - she had her child ripped from her, but she continues to search, and within our state, we have the "Morgan Nick Alert" any time a child goes missing.
I think we all have a purpose, and it could be to something great or it could be something small that affects someone else. You talking on your blog about your brother could be just what one of your readers needs to hear to get through their tough time and in turn do something amazing.
You never know exactly why these things happen, just know that it will work itself out.
What a beautiful post! For me, it always helps me to remember that God wouldn't put me through any situation that I could not handle. I truly believe that everything happens for a reason. Something bad happening to us is not a punishment! From that struggle, we may be able to, in someway, help someone else that needs us.
I enjoyed this post! I think things like this are really difficult for those of us who question, are skeptical, and who want/need answers. I have to remind myself all the time that my Faith is not a proven science; it's not something with black and white, concrete answers. There are many things I will never have the answer to, I just have to have faith and trust that God is good no matter what happens. This is definitely hard to do when "bad" things happen but I guess it goes with the territory of claiming I am a woman of faith.
Thank you for trusting us enough to candidly share your beliefs on these issues. I, too, have struggled with the same concerns over the years. For the most part, I hold very similar beliefs to yours. I've not read The Shack, and just might do that before long.
Have a blessed day!
By the way, I meant to tell you this in my previous comment, but I was too moved and absorbed with thinking about your post to remember to say it...
I LOVE THE NEW LAYOUT AND DESIGN!!!
Love all your thoughts!
I have been reading your blog for a long time, but never commented until now. I love your blog! You crack me up!
I am a public school teacher too. I am sorry to hear you lost your position for next year. Are you close to some other districts?
Keep up the great blogging!
-AM
Oh, how I struggle with these same thoughts! I think I am going to pick up that book and give it a read! It would be so much easier if we did have those answers, don't you think? Guess we will have to work with what we do have though.
The entire time I was reading your post I was thinking..."I have got to tell her to read The Shack." Then you already did. But I do think that it is a FANTASTIC explanation of tragedy. I could never have explained it before reading the book.....now don't get my husband started about the theologial errors in the book...I'm not so much concerned with that, it's just a perfect explanation of what we think God intends. Gave you an award for being awesome :)
http://iblamemom.blogspot.com/2009/03/blog-awards.html
Great thoughts. The Shack was a great book, almost healing in a way. Am I thankful for some things in my past? No. But that's what it took to get me to where I am now. Loving God and fully trusting in Him.
you know...god always answers. he answers yes sometimes and no sometimes and sometimes maybe...and sometimes the answer is wait. god can and will take anything and bring glory to it...but we have to allow it. we do live in a fallen world...it's a fact.
ok, i could totally go on...but i just want to say, god remains the same, no matter what...he is unchanging. his love endures forever...and his many emotions show true throughout the bible; he gets angry and sad, delighted and happy, overwhelmed and comforted, he listens and believes...and i think he expects us to do the same.
I totally left a comment last night at work, and now it's not here. Anyways, LOVE the post, and love you more!
As I was reading this I kept thinking I should tell you to read the shack, but you already did! YAY! I love that book:)
The Shack has actually brought a LOT of healing to my painful past and helped me deal with some of the "junk" we tend to hold on to. I have actually been in the works of writing a post about The Shack for my blog, you beat me to it!
I know there is some controversy about the book, but I think people forget its fiction!!!
I fell even more in love with God after reading The Shack, and it truely allowed me to open up to God in ways I hadn't to let the real healing start!
It brings me great peace to actually know that God wept with me and hurt with when I was hurting, that He shares in all those things with us, the joys and the pains. And that he never intended from the begining for us to experience the pain and suffering that this world and some of our choices hold. What he did always intend from the begining was to LOVE us, and that melts my heart <3
HE IS AWESOME!!!
And so are you.....when are we having our tea date??????????
I'm with you... I think God set this world into motion and He allows our sin to affect our lives - and it is passed on, to those we love, and to generations far beyond us. Our nation is a prime example of it.
I work with our youth at my church and trying to answer these same questions for them, when I as a human sometimes wonder the same things gets HARD.
Thank you for sharing though...
The next time you call yourself shallow, I will refer you to this post, my friend.
I don't pretend to understand it. I've tried to. Tried and kicked and screamed and begged to understand. It's just not to be understood by mortal beings, I think.
WHen Cara is sick or sad or falls down she will raise her fist and shake while yelling "I hate sin!!" and then say - "Bad things happen because we have sin, mom, that's why I hate it."
I'm not going to tell you what I think or how what you think may differ...because it seems as though you just wanted to "vent"...and in that I can say...great vent! Your feelings came out very well on "paper"...and it all makes very good sense to me. My mom read The Shack..and said it was hard, having lost someone so recently, but it was good. In fact she called me with a quote in the last 40 pages that blew my mind...it was awesome and really helped us get a bit of perspective!
It's so healthy to wonder these things I think!
I checked in the middle of the night too. Not on the blog, but on twitter. I am glad to know there are so many of us out there rooting and praying for this little man.
What a wonderful post! This was such a great post for reflection! It really made me think what do I believe on this subject. I totally agree with you that God always has a plan for our lives. It will always be for the good, we just have to find the good in every situation! Thanks again for the inspirational post. You sure do come up with a lot of great thoughts on your runs. Have a blessed day!
You have more to say worth listening to than most priests and ministers I've heard on the topic. Personally, I think God's 'plan' is that we have an opportunity to grow based on the good and bad things that happen in our lives.
I've been struggling with this in the past too...it's maddening to think about.
I too am confused about all that you mentioned above. However, the other day I was watching the movie Religilous with some friends and someone on the movie made a great point. They said that an ant can never understand a TV because it is above their capacity to understand. That is just how we are. We can never understand God's plan because it is more than our minds can grasp. We are ants if not less compared to Him.
By the way, if you have not seen the movie it is a TERRIBLE movie. I hated it. When I heard about it I thought it would be a movie that brings up different questions people have about religion (just like you did) and have people of faith answer. Nope. The whole movie was about proving that religion is wrong. I wouldn't recommend anyone to watch it, however I did learn a couple things from some of the other Christians.
Sara,
what a great post and i think it's a question everyone, at least once in their life, has struggled with. learning God's character and reading His Word are the best tools in any of our uncomfortable situations. i have also thought all along that the things we go through, trials and tribulations, build our character and God uses them to bring us closer to Him. reading MckMama's blog lately too has helped me realize how big He is and how much bigger He is than any illness or circumstance we may be going through. we humble ourselves and go to His throne for guidance and compassion.
oh, this could get really long. i love your thoughts and see all angles of where you are coming from. continue to search for answers as that will only make you stronger in your faith and closer to Him. : )
look at you sister!
This was a great post and I really loved to hear your honest open thoughts!
I do not know reasons why things happen the way they do but I find comfort knowing that it is for God's glory and when I am discouraged, I offer it up in prayer and continue to do so until the heavy burden is lifted.That's all I can do.
Sometimes, I wonder if the not knowing part is God's message to surrender our whole self unto Him and trust in Him.
i just wanted to share with you another blogger's view on the shack ((http://flyawaybirdie.blogspot.com/2009/03/shack.html))
she shares what i already had heard about the book. just thought it was worth sharing.
Post a Comment